More than 200,000 at Bersih 2.0
jJust received an email from Ruth aka Crankshaft asking about the methodology on crowd estimating and my thoughts on the turnout and so let’s elaborate a bit here on, first of all you need to be observant and an "estimating" consciousness during the rally and after that inspecting the videos and photos of other areas that you could not access or did not visit on that day.
When the crowd is in the stadium than estimation become easy but because there is no fix location and as the government has declared the Bersih 2.0 rally illegal then estimation becomes a bit more difficult as you will have to study other locations that you were not at.
During that day we started from Sentral Station than walk down through the Brickfields area towards Petaling Street to Pudu Raya (Maubank) and to the Merdeka Stadium and return to Brickfields through Pasar Seni.
These were some of my observation:
There was continuous movement of people on the streets and they seem to congregate and amass in to a big crowd at certain point usually when the FRU movrs in to block them and the first big mass of people were at the Pudu Raya Maybank location at about 1.30 PM. Crowd estimate in that area alone was close to 100,000 which is including those at the fringes of the area who dare not venture further to join the main mass of demonstrators, can’t blame them as many were with their families or were first timers.
All these while there were still people strolling in to the city as were stated earlier that there was a continuous stream of people walking in to the area coming in from the Sentral Station as well as Jalan Pudu from Bukit Bintang area and people everywhere in the KLCC area. Unending loose groups of people streaming in even late in to the afternoon people were still coming in. Even when we were walking back we saw many still coming in to the Pasar Seni area.
This is quite clear due to major police blockade preventing traffic from coming in to the City and many were jam up for hours, I have heard complaint of people being caught in the traffic for more than 4 hours and they still made it to the rally although they were late and this explained the many people walking in late even as we were going back around 4.30 PM. The demonstrators were also calling up their friends or twitting calling people to come participate and giving out instruction on how to commute to the area.
The Bersih Rally started quite early although the official time was to be at 2 PM, as an example our group started waiting as early as 10 AM at the kopitiam and the first group of our bigger group started out at 11 AM to the Sentral Station taking the KTM Commuter and by 12PM most were already walking in to the Petaling Street or Pasar Seni area. So the actual Bersih event was a whole day event and right up to 5.30 PM the FRU were still lobbing tear gas.
There were people everywhere many did not join the main body but were at the fringes as you can see from the photos here, they were on pedestrian bridge and all around and some just taking a breather at the corners of stair case and etc.
And so with all these consideration and using the methodology as stated in one of my earlier posting in the Anti ISA rally here. The conservative estimates are that the total number of people who were at the Rally at just about more than 200,000.
26 comments:
csl : " i counted about 65 chinese saja ! "
Sorry, but simply not possible. My friends alone, that I met, make up 26! I think it depends on where you were on 709. Go watch the video at Marina's blog and Matthias Chang's blog. Somehow those two videos feature sections of the crowd with majority Chinese!
Don't want to be crude, but MCA President was referring to the bulu between his legs. Could have been more, but wear and tear shows!
This number feels more like it instead of the 50000 quoted. Was a River of People Flowing Everywhere.
Whilst having the long cool dane back at our hotel in Petaling Street somebody asked: "How many participated? Malaysiakini numbers I never believe." My reply: Hawkeye uses the grid method. I am sure he will give us a good estimate in his blog.
Thanks comrade brother.
Drinks on me at GOURMANDIS.
Yes. Agreed! 1Malaysia show up in full force. People walking everywhere in the city. Thanks for validating the numbers.
any idea wat's the estimate globally? dun forget to add in some of the polis & FRUs ... not every 1 of them was against the march. & God was there too as He cried with tears of joy seeing Malaysians coming together as ONE.
Anytime Guru,
Yes we will need to replenish all the spent energy from Bersih 2.0 and GOURMANDIS sounds good.
Good report. Hope Liow reads it and resigns, like Najib, for lying to the nation.
dpp
we are all of 1 race, the Human Race
It is. More than 50k but I don't think it is more than 200k.
Don't forget th epeople were coming in and going back from Friday evening through to about 6 pm Saturday evening.
Did IGP keep tabs on all those numbers. If you add it all up over the two days, theer were probably 200,000 EXCLUDING those who turned back because of road closures or LRT and bus restrictiosn.
dpp
we are all of 1 Race, the Human Race
Hi Anon 11:01,
So what do you think the number is?
The consideration here is the constant streaming flow of people coming from all directions for the whole afternoon, like most people coming from Sentral through Brickfields to Pasar Seni and Jln Petaling to Stadium.
Masjid Jamek towards Jln Pudu Maybank.
Old Pudu and Bukit Bintang area towards Jln Pudu and also to KLCC.
And from KLCC also flowing to Jln Pudu.
I am not alone here as there were constant feedback from our group of people on the ground in all the different locations like Johnny Ong, Rodi, Eugene, Pury and others.
Many thanks guys for your feedback.
Well done Hawkeye. You live up to your name!
Can't be 200,000. Even Ambiga mentioned only about 50,000 which is already a success.
From what I gather it's less than the previous one.
I was there and it felt like a million Malaysian. Mr. Hawkeye, I agree with you there was more than 200000.
I was there. Estimated at 150k - 200k.
If BN wants to say 50, let them say 50. They are always in the syiok sendiri syndrome !
Thanks Hawkeye :-)
I went with the purpose to document evidence of the numbers etc, but I was so flabbergasted by the sheer amount of people pouring in from all over, that I forgot to snap often enough.
I'm fairly certain it is more than 100,000. My mind was blown by that number alone.
Being KL born-and-bred, I thought I have seen the whole of KL, but evidently, this Bersih rally has shown me lots of new roads!
Don't argue with CSL when he says it depends on the angle at which the photo is viewed. Give him the benefit of the doubt since he has great experience and also is an expert with video camera and angles.
i did a quick 3D simulation, the straight road infront of PUDU alone is +-18,000 , my method is using particles array and i generate human shape of average 72" height x 24" width x 14" depth, it took about 18000 replication of the human shape to fill up the road. This is just a simulation and 18000 shape is not filling every inch of the road, given that there is a small gap between people. And, this doesn't not include the crowd that gather in front of Maybank.
Considering the ugly and vicious threats of bloodshed and massacre from BN's goon squads (PDRM, Perkasa, Silat Lanciau) and the keris-wielding cowheaded home minister, I was overjoyed to see so many so determined to be there, overcoming understandable fear. The whole time I was in KL, I felt a sense of euphoria mixed with tension - euphoria because I knew the specter of May 13 had finally faded away like fart; never again will UMNO be able to use their divide-and-rule strategy! Tension... because the police had been primed to inflict maximum terror against the rakyat. Luckily, they seem to have retained enough good sense (if not humanity) to speedily release everyone they arrested on 9 July - except for Uncle Hii from Sarawak.
It angers and frustrates me to know the guys from PSM remain in detention and as a face-saving measure, Kerismuddin wants them to confess to trying to "revive communism." To these medieval mindsets "communism" still serves as a bogeyman; just as accusing someone of sodomy is enough to destroy his reputation forever. So childish, backward and stupid!
well when bersih's one malaysia showed up on 709,jibby's rm multimillions hoodwinking hoax hav gone bankcrupt right into the KL drains,,, n it spells the begining of the end of racist umno be end...''unggun bersih,unggun bersih one malaysia''!!
I was at bersih 1.0, hindraf, anti-isa and bersih 2.0 is the biggest crowd of all the earliest protest.
Good Work Hawkeye.
That is the most likely numbers of Bersih participants than that estimated by PDRM and Malaysiakini. The fact that 200K attended despite the various threats, roadblocks and other form of restraints from PDRM revealed the followings:
1. The "revolution" if it happens is NOT due to race and religion as portrayed by UMNO and PERKASA BUT due to frustrations of rakyat at the present Government due to rampant corruptions, poor governance, mismanagement of nation resources etc. The Government must have the Political will to combat all evils activities that affect the well being of the rakyat.
2. Rakyat are well informed and NOT easily intimidated.
3. The propaganda against Bersih by the Government media is counter productive and rakyat are perceiving it as MISINFORMATION.
4. Rakyat knows their RIGHT to demonstrate peacefully and are willing to be arrested since the declaration of Bersih as illegal is UNLAWFUL.
5. Ambiga Sreenevasan is a situational leader that empowered Malaysian to rise up for free and fair election. The present of PR provide fuel for the Government to coin Betrsih as trying to topple the present Government.
6. MOST IMPORTANT fact is that the news through the INTERNET or IT is a FORCE multiplier and exert much influence to the Malaysian than any Government controlled media.
These are the lessons learned from the Bersih march for fair and free elections.
If not because of the road block and threatening tactics employed by the police, the turn-up will scare the government in wetting their pants!
Great post and great job, Hawkeye. Remember that the world is with Malaysians wanting change. I hope Malaysia will get its long overdued changes. Bersih is never forgotten
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